1968, 11126grt
Austin & Pickersgill, Sunderland (851) for Dalgliesh
1978 LUGANO
1982 BREMBO
1983 SAN GEORGE
1987 UNION
1987 PRINARITIS
1993 OMALI
Broken up at Alang in January 1994

Hawthorn Leslie Doxford 670P4 engine, no 4271

Alongside at Newcastle Quay in 1973.

A Newcastle Registered ship on her home River.

I wonder how many vessel's (If any) are still registered in Newcastle

and Newcastle NSW does not count.

fitter wrote:Hawthorn Leslie Doxford 670P4 engine, no 4271

Silp of the key's 67J4

Thanks Tony.
A 1968 built ship should undoubtedly have had a J type engine and I should have remembered anyhow. I have a copy of the original Hawthorn Leslie Engine lists, ( all makes of engine), from the entirely reliable Tony Wickens, and curiously it reads quite clearly 670PT4, and worse, although it has the correct engine number, 4271, and Pickersgills yard number, 851, as well as the correct subsequent names it gives the date for the ship as 07/59. The original mistake is in Hawthorns lists that I assumed as irrefutable, but the greater mistake is mine, I should have known better
Just goes to show, nobody's "inflammible," (a Thompsons machine shop corruption of infallible).
Thanks again, well spotted
Tom

PS This is done as an edit. I have four different Hawthorn Leslie documents in front of me. Each one has 670PT4 as the engine for this ship. I don't know why this should be and the documents that I have that are entirely indisputable information are all out on loan at present. Now I must verify it, or perhaps you can?.

Tony,
Sorry, I have found an irrefutable, infallible, indisputable document !
"Notes of a meeting held at offices of Watergate Shipping Company, Newcastle upon Tyne 06.10.1970:"

Subject: "To decide on action to be taken to alleviate the surging which occurs on the forward turbo charger at speeds exceeding 92 - 98 r.p.m."

Present: Mr Peter Dalgliesh, Mr.R.N Dalgliesh; Capt. R.G.Phillips; Mr T Middlemiss; Mr. C.W Matthews (all Dalgliesh staff). Mr P. Pfeifer (Brown Boveri). Mr. A.J. Wickens, Mr B. Gray (Hawthorn Leslie).
Other documents including one from Doxfords to Dalgliesh all have quite clearly a 670PT4 engine.

I have no idea as to why a P type engine should be built in 1968, other than the contract must have been signed before the J type was proven. The first one was North Sands and that wasS 1965. Maybe Hawthorn had enough P type bits lying around to build a whole engine and thought "Why Not?" then offered Dalgliesh a good deal for accepting a then obsolete design
Tom

ANOTHER EDIT:
Tony
I've just spoken to the last Chief draughtsman at Doxford engine works and he instantly recalled that the engine was a P type that had several J type components added to it. You will know that Hawthorn Leslie were prolific engine builders in their own right but also built numerous Doxford engines and collaboration between them and Doxfords led to the unsuccessful Seahorse engine. That apart, Doxford licensees had a certain amount of liberty to change the design of components, and frequently did, not all of which were received enthusiastically by Doxfords, (and vice versa, no doubt). He told me that Hawthorn built two P type engines with various J type parts added to them and that Tamworth was one of them, and that a similar thing happened when the P type replaced the LBD design. Tony Wickens, who was a long serving Hawthorn engineer and would even know the names of all the mice in Hawthorns works :, and who would be able to give precise details of the engines, is still recovering from major surgery and will have more things to be concerned about than this, otherwise I would have asked him what the additions were.
The all defining criteria would be the crankshaft. The P & J type crankshafts were radically different and entirely non interchangeable so you may have a P or a J but not both and the Tamworth was a P.
An intersesting one. I wonder if I might ask how you came to find it as a J engine?
Tom

I was just thinking that the 'P' was long past its sell by date by 1968 and along with its reliabilty.Thank you Tom for enlighting me,I should have known better to question your outstanding knowledge.(Just keeping you on your toes?)All ways look foward to your comments.TAMWORTH engine must have been a nightmare ordering spares?(the Johnny Cash record springs to mind "One Piece at a Time")

"Outstanding knowledge" I am sorry to say really is illusionary. In reality I have a handful of memories, boat loads of documents to refer to, one or two very knowledgeable, friendly contacts and because I don't drink, refuse to watch TV and hate all sport, I have a little bit of time to join in with some excellent people that are interested in sharing what they know about shippy things in our area.
Thanks for your numerous postings. You should write a book, and if you need some motivation .......... I would buy a copy